In Defense of Comments.
Excuse our ignorance, but at what point did it become apparent that “inline blog comments are going the way of the BBS and Gopher sites of yore”? We understand there are certain inefficiencies in the traditional way of handling comments, including but not limited to spam, follow-ups, digressions, fragmentation, trolls, and idiots. Yet we fail to see how the tweet-as-comment paradigm resolves any of those issues.
If building a better comment system was the goal, iterating on the progress made by dedicated comment sites like Hacker News, Slashdot, Digg, Reddit, et al seems a much savvier plan than blowing it up and starting over. While we stop short of praising comment threading, voting, and flagging as panaceas, it does seem undeniable that Twitter solves none of those issues, introducing instead a host of its own.
By replacing comments with tweets, Happy Cog twice undermines its audience, first by contributing to the general Internet noise pollution (as well as the specific article comment thread noise) and second by trivializing the resulting discussion. Artificial brevity is a flaw not a feature. It makes substantive conversation if not impossible at least heavily discouraged. Ex-communicating the indefinite length, local comment as the fundamental unit of a larger intellectual discussion is inimical to Internet culture and, most importantly, learning — which we presume is a core value of any blog post.
But perhaps we’re unfair. We tremble at the thought of standing in the way of progress and stick-in-the-mud traditionalism is hardly our philosophy. Maybe the goal was to simply make it easier for people to leave feedback on the article. In that case, Cognition has succeeded wildly. It is a bold move (though perhaps a bit shy of “brilliant” as many commenters tweeters gush) worthy of applause. If upsetting the rotting apple cart of blog commenting is one outcome, it won’t all have been for naught.
Our metaphorical fingers are crossed that Happy Cog instituted this system not as part of a grand PR scheme but in the sincere belief that it offered at least the chance of a better model by holding commenters accountable and elevating responding blogs to first-class comment citizens. If that is the case, we humbly suggest supplementing Twitter and blogs with good, old-fashioned comments à la Disqus because, on some level, a well-considered comment system is irreducibly complex. It requires a spectrum of in situ response lengths to adequately simulate real conversation. ((And, if beggars were choosers, things like voting, threading, burying, author highlighting, comment email or RSS subscriptions, etc. There is much room for improvement.)) By striving for “simple” we fear Happy Cog has strayed into “simplistic.” Unless changes are made, commenting on a Cognition post is an exercise in futility, home only to well-meaning pats-on-the-back and vapid gestures.
Let us be clear: we have no objection to decentralizing, extending, or otherwise improving the conversation. We do, however, oppose its infantilization.
In Zeldman we trust.
James
Great read Nate,
I must admit I’m another headscratcher about this “new” commenting theory and I’m still not clear how it actually works.
I’ve written up a blog post here http://www.welcomebrand.co.uk/blog/happy-cog-take-on-blog-comments/
What I’m most interested in is how I’d interact with you if for example we wanted to discuss this topic. Normally I’d just reply in a thread / mention you by name in a standard comment but now if I want more than 120 characters I need to publish my own blog post about it but I still don’t see the bigger picture on we’d communicate.
We’ll see I guess!
Love the blog, had a read of some other posts and you’ve got another subscriber :)
Cheers,
James.
Shane
I do love Disqus, and have enjoyed incorporating it on my own Tumblr blog. However all of the people that I follow that I saw their tweet/comment on the “Cognition” blog didn’t bother me, instead it made me feel like I was apart of the discussion. So I don’t think the tweet comment is the best solution for EVERY blog, but depending on the blogs audience I see it as a solid solution.
I did enjoy your take on it all, and you brought up many valid points I didn’t previously think of.
Christian
Twitter sees your “artificial brevity is a flaw not a feature” bet and raises you a billion dollars. (In less than 140 characters.)
Clinton Paquin
Not sure if I should comment on how well thought out this post was, or just tweet it … think I’ll do both!
Jeff
Nicely put. I think Twitter-based comments are great promo for the site itself but NOT very useful for the user/reader. There are many many users who don’t have a Twitter account or blog and they are left out.
What really seems silly is the blog post. Really, you want non-Twitter people to write a post on his/her own site just to comment on (and link to ) your site? Seems very user unfriendly, a pain and a bit sketchy (link juicing).
The Twitter approach also just creates tweet noise, basically it leaves enough room for a “Yay, this is great” type of Retweet and little other room for substance. I see it as a tool for marketing, but not a good read.
As we all know, when done correctly, comments benefit a site greatly and foster good debate and provide links to other pertinent info. You just need good moderation and must stay on top of things. I like Disqus a lot, it provides a good commenting structure for the end user, posts Tweets and has a nice backend for moderation.
Again, nice article!
tom
I tried it and as well as polluting the context of my Twitter stream it also posted to a company account that I run, rather than my own, resulting in a dash to Twitter.com to delete the tweet.
You’re bang on with this appraisal. It’s an interesting idea and cool experiment, but utterly inappropriate as a response mechanism unless it’s for something fleetingly vacuous, Justin Bieber blog maybe?
I really expected better of Mr Zeldman.
Blaine Motsinger
I think Happy Cog’s choice to utilize twitter for blog comments was a very ingenious use of an already widely used platform.
Yes, a side effect will be higher ranking on SEO, and maybe Google will modify their ranking again in response to this. Good tactics or bad, they are using the system in creative ways, maybe bringing about a much needed (in my opinion) change to the way SEO is determined.
Yes, a side effect will be limited discussion, but I know personally, I’ve left comments longer than the blog post itself; this can be annoying.
I think Zeldman is doing what Zeldman does; he innovates and stretches and leads us into new territory. Were the ramifications well thought out? Maybe where this is going to lead things was agreed upon to be okay, and maybe even a desired simplification.
Greg Hoy
As a President at Happy Cog, I am thrilled that our experiment has generated such thoughtful discussion. Regardless of where you land on the issue, I can safely say we are simply trying to see where an idea like this can lead. We’re listening to all viewpoints, for and against, and will be finessing things over time.
One note to Tom – you don’t have to solely blame Mr. Zeldman for this. He had some help. :)
Nate
Thanks for the reply, Greg. Actually, thanks to everyone at Happy Cog for not only an elegant implementation of a risky idea but also for promoting alternative viewpoints and responding to them.
We certainly look forward to the results of the experiment. Perhaps it should have been clearer in the post, but we understand that there are degrees of conversation ranging from full, unmoderated commenting to Tumblr-style likes and reblogs to no comments whatsoever. It may have been more appropriate to say we hope this does not portend the abandonment of comments as the dominant method of discussing relevant articles. Sites like A List Apart, Zeldman.com, etc. would be significantly less valuable without inline, variable-length community contributions.
Thanks for listening.
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Jason Carlin
Beginning an article with “Excuse our ignorance” is a great way to get me to not finish the article.
Jay
Greg, echoing Nate’s point, thanks for being open to and even promoting dissension on this topic. It takes a lot of cojones to do something brazen, then use your megaphone to trumpet the protests. On the topic itself, as I said to @HappyCog on Friday, Cognition sparks a healthy debate about accountability in commenting. What we’re asking is, do the ends justify the means?
Jason, that comment was perfectly tweet-sized. There’s even room for a shortened URL link back to our post. Way to play along.
Josh Bryant
I really wanted to read this article, but the type is a bit small for my eyes on my 17″ MBP. And somehow you’ve set it so that my browser’s (Safari) zoom feature does not increase the type size but only the page column width and line-height? I didn’t even know it was possible to break that.
Nate
@Josh— I’m not sure what you mean by increasing the page column width and line-height. Page zoom works correctly in Safari as far as I can tell.
Broken text zoom does appear to be an a side-effect of fixing iOS text size with the CSS property “-webkit-text-size-adjust.” Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
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Natalia Ventre
Everything depends on the audience, if all your readers are on Twitter, and their conversations happen there, why bothering with a comment system?
Disqus is the better of both worlds, you can leave long comments and tweet them, but I guess that if you have a strong opinion about a subject, it’s more appropriate to write a post in your own blog and just tweet the link.
Niels Matthijs
It’s a long-standing issue. Some two years ago I wrote a little post about it myself, fearing that old-fashioned commenting would be removed as too “web 1.0”. Luckily, things haven’t gotten to that point (yet). For reference, here’s the post: http://www.onderhond.com/blog/onderhond/killing-blog-comments
As for Twitter comments, I never even understood how that’s supposed to work. I’d need about 10-20 tweets for just posting this comment here. Or blog this comment (as if such a small text would fit in my article list). Or just shut up if I can’t do either.
Spam and trolls are just lame excuses. There are good solutions to both of these problems, so I still don’t really get why the current comment system can’t just be improved rather than reinvented in ways that allows for less freedom and options for the user.
At least it is good to read there are still people out there who object to these half-arsed alternative (like using Twitter).
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